250+ camera...need help

[madscientist]

i have to install 250+ ip camera in our new office building, but do not have idea or experience if zoneminder will suitable for it, please anybody kindly guide me if it is possible, presently i am running a small 20 ip camera setup for testing with three zm-server and a db-server and for storage using freenas, NFS share to store data, the only thing i observed is high CPU usage in all the zm-server any help will be appreciated

thanks

[iconnor]

You might consider paying for a few hours of support from us.
You havn't said what your servers are. The word server doesn't tell us anything.
You need 1 real core per 4 cameras generally.

You havn't said what your desired resolution/fps are.
SYstem load also isn't that great an indicator of performance. I have machines that routinely run around 10 but are able accomplish all their tasks as fast as needed.

Some general recommendations:
#1: Don't use network storage. Latencies are in the ms range as opposed to local disk which are in the ns range. You can record locally and move the data to a network archive disk in the background.
#2: The db becomes a bottleneck. If you are doing motion detection you are storing a db record for every frame so 20 cameras at 10fps means over 200 inserts per second. So it needs to have fast disks, lots of ram and generally be tuned. Use mysqltuner.
#3: Always start in mocord mode. This will ensure you have all the video if your zones aren't setup well. Also will tell you if you have the network/disk bandwidth to handle your maximum load.

[madscientist]

thanks for the reply
i already fwd the paid support cost to the top management, as it will involve foreign currencies, it will take time to get permission.

presently i am using dell r630 with 128 gb ram , 48 core xeon E5 - 2673, all ssd for (SAS-12g) for os, 10G lan with the storage (dedicated for zoneminder events), hyper converges (3 identical server), proxmox VE 6.2, all zoneminder server in VM in one r630, for our test setup, i am presently not using mdetect, full recording is required , 10fps, have mixed camera 3mp to 1mp, db is optimized using the mysqltuner, in present situation, full recording will be required for 30 days, as per local law,

present everything is working except cpu load.....but for 200+ camera....i may have to think of using a standalone r810 with four socket 64 core, 128 gb server.......for storage i need to go for non ssd , sas 8tb hdd, if easily available and affordable......

but from where to start, standalone server or virtualization........which camera (presently hikvision) ........ that is the question.....starting point

[burger]

i am presently not using mdetect, full recording is required , 10fps

present everything is working except cpu load.....but for 200+ camera....i may have to think of using a standalone r810 with four socket 64 core, 128 gb server.......for storage i need to go for non ssd , sas 8tb hdd, if easily available and affordable......

but from where to start, standalone server or virtualization........which camera (presently hikvision) ........ that is the question.....starting point

Use mocord / modect on the substream and record or (nodect & linked monitors) on the high res stream. I'd say 7 or 8 FPS is enough, personally. Not all cameras need the full hi res stream. Storage areas on ZM 1.32 and newer means you can have multiple HDDs so there isn't going to be only 1 8TB HDD. You can have a number of 4TB HDDs, which seem to be affordable at the moment. Do not use virtualization. You want a UPS.

You must be careful which camera you choose. Getting one with a warranty and testing them out is required. Test in mocord mode. ZMA uses much more CPU than ZMC. ZM Analysis / ZM Camera Record. Mocord / Modect means ZMA runs. Hikvision is one option and should work well, but you need a warranty, if you have a lot of them. I had one fail on me out of the blue once. You can try different brands, if you want to diversify your risk or just play around. There are a number of solid name brand cameras out there that are worth testing. Hikvision (for the low end) is the general go to here, but if you are buying 250 cameras, you have room to experiment. Try a few Dahua, Arecont Vision, Honeywell, etc... Any known brand name that is Onvif compliant. If you can afford it, buy Axis (which is the go to for the high end here). Also consider the Axis companion cameras which should be lower cost. I'm testing one of these out right now. Of course, test all out first. I had a honeywell that required UDP, and probably an Arecont Vision too, but otherwise they work 100%.

What you don't want, is to end up with a camera that works 'most' of the time. That can be a nightmare. Or the same model cameras, where some of them work 100% and some of them drop out occasionally. The cameras should be rock-solid stable.

EDIT: If you think you don't need mocord, then you can go without it, but trying to track down events without motion / timeline is difficult, and I don't advise it. I would only omit motion detection on a camera by camera basis.

[iconnor]

I find that you can do analysis at 1-2 fps instead of full fps saves a ton of cpu.

[madscientist]

thanks for your reply and advise....and sorry for my late reply....i am working to procure few suggested model of camera if available in india. i will start experimenting with your advise.....for testing purpose if i use vm hope it will not create a lot of problem. also got 10TB hard disk sata, will test the performance of it, but for 250+ i need a lot of space for 30 day recording....so better to start experiment and buy wherever requirement come during the lab test.....but few of the camera ......full recording i will have to test.....hope will do well

thanks

[iSpyWithMyLittleEye]

Hello iconnor,

Happy Easter


I think I'm walking into a wild meeting with directors of a freight company this coming week or two, so would like some confidence when asked questions.

Do you have any guidelines or formulas we can use as a rule of thumb for hardware spec when things get wild on camera count. I'm no stranger to the Dell R720/R730 with a MD DAS box combo for content delivery. It's content acquisition I've never had to quantify before.



I've a client with a bonded warehouse, sprawling over a 15 acre site, multiple buildings.

We've already setup a small 6 camera 8MP Dahua system with a NVR for a new building they just finished, so I think that has set a precedent on image quality going forward.

I'm going to assume they want 8MP cameras everywhere. They got caught out with a workplace accident a few weeks ago, a 5 high stack of 40 ft shipping containers was knocked over, existing camera system can't resolve the sign writing on the side of a 40ft container so operator error could not be attributed.

8MP camera, 25fps, assume I have to capture all 25fps of 8MP streams (and retain for 60-90 days). ZM can analyse the substream for motion detection to keep CPU cycles down?

What rule of thumb formula should I use for ballparking this?

Gee Xeon platinum cpu prices are eye watering. Just threw together a R750 config.....

If the concept has legs with these people, I'll be hitting you up for your consulting service.

thanks for your time.

[iconnor]

8MP 25fps ? 2 cpu cores per camera. No I'm not joking.

Why 25fps? 10 is plenty.

You are going to need my assistance, further I can save you time and money with the onboard and camera management.

at 1080p the rule of thumb was 4cams per core. at 4mp it's 2 per core. At 8mp....

So what you are going to have to do is simply record without decoding the high res stream, and as you say do motion detection on the low res stream.
Live view will have to be on the low res stream as well, or perhaps on-demand decoding, but you won't be able to live watch all stream simultaneously.

In which case a fairly standard server will do.

Are you then going to want AI/ML?

If they are willing to fund the development, I'll even make it work better than it currently does. Think $10,000 for a yearly support. Or like $2000 for a block of time to get you setup and running smooth.