Hi,
Before i start my ( quite standard ) list of questions, i want to apalogize for another boring topic. I know most of the answers are in the docs and forums, but i need to be 100% sure before i go in business with zoneminder. Thanks for bearing with me ;)
My situation is as follows. I've been asked by a fairly large shop in my village to implement a securitysystem. It has to be able to handle the following.
-monitor at least 10 camera's ( motion-activated )
-record all streams on disk for at least a week ( shop's open 6 day a week from 9 till 9.. )
-quality must be good enough to reckognize faces
I've red the documentation en i know Zoneminder is capable of this, but i still have some questions.
-since the distance between PC and camera is about 100 Meters i suppose i need networkcams.What is the price of these cams and what camera is compatible with zoneminder?
-What is the smallest resolution/colordepth at which it's still possible to reckognize faces?
-Is the face still viewable if the person is about 15 meters away from the camera?
-What kind of system do i need for this goal? I have a dedicated server ( AMD ATHLON XP 2500, 1GB DDR333, 200GB HD,standard videocard) Would this suffice?
-Is it stable? i cannot afford having it crash every week or month.
-And most important ;) how much should i ask as payment for my services? What are the costs of another system ( videoserver or whatever ) which can handle these requirements?
I don't have the slightest idea about prices in this sector, so i really need some advice here.
Last but not least, if i make money with zoneminder i make sure you get a donation. Since i do some OSS developing myself a know how it feels to spend every free hour on software for free ---> bad hobby! and man, i love it :-P )
Thnx for reading so far,
Bart
Standard questions about zoneminder
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andrewgroup
- Posts: 6
- Joined: Sat Feb 21, 2004 11:50 pm
General Questions
I too have been closely examining ZomeMinder as a potential revenue creator for our business. From my experience you can do all that you wish using ZoneMinder. Things to consider, Baluns for transmitting Video across Cat5 twisted pairs to eliminate the long coax runs, resolution is dependent on you choose if camera, capture boards, and distance from camera, not the software. My two week test of ZM gave evidence that it is stable, of course we were experimenting with it during the entire time. Others users on this board seem to confirm a certain level of stability. As for what other companies charge, an IT client of mine (Daycare Center) has recieved and is considering a 10 camera system from SecureCam to allow parents to view the classrooms for a monthly fee of 900.00 us and the vendor is offering Free Installation. I assume these will be a fixed focal length camera and a WEB interface with a username/password to enable parents access to their assigned camera.
-
zoneminder
- Site Admin
- Posts: 5215
- Joined: Wed Jul 09, 2003 2:07 pm
- Location: Bristol, UK
- Contact:
Re: Standard questions about zoneminder
Hi Bart,
A couple of comments,
My situation is as follows. I've been asked by a fairly large shop in my village to implement a securitysystem. It has to be able to handle the following.
<i>-monitor at least 10 camera's ( motion-activated )</i>
This shouldn't be a problem though I doubt you'd get 10 cameras at 25fps. If you limit it to something like 10fps you should be ok assuming all the cameras aren't recording due to motion all the time. Otherwise you'd be better off with just continuous recording.
<i>-record all streams on disk for at least a week ( shop's open 6 day a week from 9 till 9.. )</i>
No problem here, if you have a the disk space. You would have to do a calculation like <number of cameras> * <frames per second> * <seconds per day captured> * <days stored> * <frame size> to get an estimate of what you would need. I suspect it would be quite a lot!
<i>-quality must be good enough to reckognize faces</i>
This is quite subjective and depends on a lot of factors like amount and direction of light, focal length of the cameras, field of view and angle of cameras etc. I think you'd have to experiment here with your potential camera placements to determine whether they allow this or not.
<i>I've red the documentation en i know Zoneminder is capable of this, but i still have some questions.</i>
<i>-since the distance between PC and camera is about 100 Meters i suppose i need networkcams.What is the price of these cams and what camera is compatible with zoneminder?</i>
I think you could run coax over 100 metres but as Andy suggested above you might be better off with UTP Cat5. Either way you could run regular 'video' cameras and use those. Otherwise network cameras are also good. My favourite at the moment is the Axis 205 which is nice and small and perfect for interior use. Version 1.18.1 of ZM can get about 5fps from one and version 1.19.0, coming soon, will do up to 25fps. They are more expensive than ordinary cameras though but you don't need a capture card so that alleviates it a bit. They also won't do for outdoors or extreme environments though.
<i>-What is the smallest resolution/colordepth at which it's still possible to reckognize faces?</i>
Again this is dependent on the focal length of the camera, ie is it 'zoomed' into one part of the store and so can do a lot of detail at long range or is it a wide angle so you can see a large area but individuals are small?
<i>-Is the face still viewable if the person is about 15 meters away from the camera?</i>
Ditto here. There are lots of different cameras all with their own attributes and strengths.
<i>-What kind of system do i need for this goal? I have a dedicated server ( AMD ATHLON XP 2500, 1GB DDR333, 200GB HD,standard videocard) Would this suffice?</i>
Probably, though you may have to review your disk space as above. Also if using normal video cameras you would need two or three capture cards.
<i>-Is it stable? i cannot afford having it crash every week or month.</i>
I think it is pretty much. It's designed to monitor itself and restart misbehaving processes. I notice yesterday that one of my processes reported that it had examined over two million frames and that probably hasn't even been going for that long. So long as you have the disk space and memory it should keep ticking over.
<i>-And most important ;) how much should i ask as payment for my services? What are the costs of another system ( videoserver or whatever ) which can handle these requirements?
I don't have the slightest idea about prices in this sector, so i really need some advice here. <i>
I can't help you there as I'm similarly ignorant. Andy had some suggestions above and you may well want to limit the initial charge and amortise the hardware cost over a period and charge monthly. There's no hard and fast rules though, it depends how involved you are going to be after installation.
Phil,
A couple of comments,
My situation is as follows. I've been asked by a fairly large shop in my village to implement a securitysystem. It has to be able to handle the following.
<i>-monitor at least 10 camera's ( motion-activated )</i>
This shouldn't be a problem though I doubt you'd get 10 cameras at 25fps. If you limit it to something like 10fps you should be ok assuming all the cameras aren't recording due to motion all the time. Otherwise you'd be better off with just continuous recording.
<i>-record all streams on disk for at least a week ( shop's open 6 day a week from 9 till 9.. )</i>
No problem here, if you have a the disk space. You would have to do a calculation like <number of cameras> * <frames per second> * <seconds per day captured> * <days stored> * <frame size> to get an estimate of what you would need. I suspect it would be quite a lot!
<i>-quality must be good enough to reckognize faces</i>
This is quite subjective and depends on a lot of factors like amount and direction of light, focal length of the cameras, field of view and angle of cameras etc. I think you'd have to experiment here with your potential camera placements to determine whether they allow this or not.
<i>I've red the documentation en i know Zoneminder is capable of this, but i still have some questions.</i>
<i>-since the distance between PC and camera is about 100 Meters i suppose i need networkcams.What is the price of these cams and what camera is compatible with zoneminder?</i>
I think you could run coax over 100 metres but as Andy suggested above you might be better off with UTP Cat5. Either way you could run regular 'video' cameras and use those. Otherwise network cameras are also good. My favourite at the moment is the Axis 205 which is nice and small and perfect for interior use. Version 1.18.1 of ZM can get about 5fps from one and version 1.19.0, coming soon, will do up to 25fps. They are more expensive than ordinary cameras though but you don't need a capture card so that alleviates it a bit. They also won't do for outdoors or extreme environments though.
<i>-What is the smallest resolution/colordepth at which it's still possible to reckognize faces?</i>
Again this is dependent on the focal length of the camera, ie is it 'zoomed' into one part of the store and so can do a lot of detail at long range or is it a wide angle so you can see a large area but individuals are small?
<i>-Is the face still viewable if the person is about 15 meters away from the camera?</i>
Ditto here. There are lots of different cameras all with their own attributes and strengths.
<i>-What kind of system do i need for this goal? I have a dedicated server ( AMD ATHLON XP 2500, 1GB DDR333, 200GB HD,standard videocard) Would this suffice?</i>
Probably, though you may have to review your disk space as above. Also if using normal video cameras you would need two or three capture cards.
<i>-Is it stable? i cannot afford having it crash every week or month.</i>
I think it is pretty much. It's designed to monitor itself and restart misbehaving processes. I notice yesterday that one of my processes reported that it had examined over two million frames and that probably hasn't even been going for that long. So long as you have the disk space and memory it should keep ticking over.
<i>-And most important ;) how much should i ask as payment for my services? What are the costs of another system ( videoserver or whatever ) which can handle these requirements?
I don't have the slightest idea about prices in this sector, so i really need some advice here. <i>
I can't help you there as I'm similarly ignorant. Andy had some suggestions above and you may well want to limit the initial charge and amortise the hardware cost over a period and charge monthly. There's no hard and fast rules though, it depends how involved you are going to be after installation.
Phil,
Re: Standard questions about zoneminder
Andy, Phil thanks for your responses. It seems there should be little problem implementing this system. Those AXIS 205 cams are a bit pricey for my taste ( about 180 euros ) but they're probably worth it.
About the face reckognition stuff, each camera monitors an area of about 10 by 10 meters ( probably less, definitily no more ). The area is lit by TL-bars so i hope i'll be able to get great detail.
This afternoon i'll try to calculate the nessecary diskspace.
About the prices, i phoned some official companies in my country ( Holland ) and they end up with prices like 15000 euros!! ( 10 camera's for 500 euros each, 24 port videoserver (4000 euros ), cabling and installation )
One more thing, maybe someone could point me to some more network camera's which are supported by ZM, thnx!
Bart
About the face reckognition stuff, each camera monitors an area of about 10 by 10 meters ( probably less, definitily no more ). The area is lit by TL-bars so i hope i'll be able to get great detail.
This afternoon i'll try to calculate the nessecary diskspace.
About the prices, i phoned some official companies in my country ( Holland ) and they end up with prices like 15000 euros!! ( 10 camera's for 500 euros each, 24 port videoserver (4000 euros ), cabling and installation )
One more thing, maybe someone could point me to some more network camera's which are supported by ZM, thnx!
Bart