ZoneMinder Forums

Is it possible to effectively capture a large outside area with no light source (rural, so not even urban cloud reflections) with a camera?

I'm trying to learn about this and most of the articles on the web are biased or misleading or contradictory - I'd like some good real-experience advice, especially if it includes any ip-camera recommendations.

My searches so far tend to bring up the >£1000 twin-lens supercameras, or the diddy home-ones for <£200 with inbuilt led clusters and (I think) very limited range. (Specs, when present, list 10M as a typical range)

I'm looking to cover several dark yards to a distance of approx 150M from camera, but camera will also have to adjust to daytime and floodlight conditions. Obviously need to work with ZM, allow multiple feeds, give a b&w feed, don't need audio or remote triggers.

Not sure if the technology is there and affordable yet - anyone got any ideas?

What I'm thinking of now, after experimenting with normal low-light cams is using a simple ip cam and some PIR floodlights to highlight movement and provide illumination to Mr Sneaky Bastard, also triggering modect recording. I've not been able to get modect working well on long distance movement (ie, small increments) and a floodlight provides an excellent trigger.

Hi Flash

I am just testing a small wireless (or wired) camera I bought on ebay recently. Just got it working with Zoneminder this week. It's a cheap option, granted, but is pretty neat in that it has inbuild IR LED's which seem to be bright enough for local coverage. Check out the link..

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll? ... _Stores_IT

On the wireless function the cam an receiver both need 12v supply (provided). Value is great, physical quality not bad - camera is better than I expected. Video quality is acceptable and so far my only trouble is that on the wireless optin the image can be subject to interference, which on modect mode can obviously trigger the alarm - causing unwanted reports to be emailed etc. Day time it is colour, night time swicthes automatically to Black/white and IR LED's then illuminate. Camera can be on server or on remote LAN computer (should even work on WAN), but wireless option makes it pretty useful - perhaps install one in your car as 12v supply is perfect for this.

Sounds like these may be right for your application as all you would need to do would be run a power supply down the area and make a housing for the socke so the transformer is in a weatherproof environment. Certainly would be the cheapest option.

Hope that info helps you!

Just to add a few notes after trying various places with this camera.

Interference is the main problem - the receiver has an infinitely variable knob which allows it to be tuned to the camera frequency. This is a good idea. However as mentioned in my last post, any interference means unwanted modect alarms. This could be caused by power surges, nearby power tool operation, unsurpressed car/motorbike spark plugs/HT leads etc etc. Location of the receiver which is hard wired into the DV Card by RCA leads is very important, & it seems a longer than supplied RCA leads (possiby sheilded ones) may overcome interference caused by the receiver being too close to a PC. Have seen 10m RCA leads for sale on ebay for only a couple of £'s.....

Secondly, installation using the provided transformer (is universal for 110V/240V power supplies) requires a weather proof box - the lead is only about 3m. They are CE approved so could be used indoors - perhaps extending the actual cable by soldering/heat shrinking in an extension would be the best way. However any cable accessible is bad news if the camera is to be tamper resistant to any degree, and in this camera's case a suitable location has to be somewhere out of reach. This is fine for detecting "bodies" etc moving around, but to get actual faces on the images would be a little optomistic. A fairly large resolution is available on Zoneminder - I can get 512 x 384 which is pretty good. Quality seems to be acceptable, but not the best, so my view is use these for area supervison, and get a ccd dome type camera (wires not visible as they are under the unit into the fascia/wall etc) which is better for lower applications such as for entrances etc. A likely intruder may still cover the camera with tape or similar, but then nothing is 100% safe!

Zoneminder is very flexible and suits many applications. If the camera is mounted incorrectly you can change the orientation easily using the software settings.

mc wrote:Secondly, installation using the provided transformer (is universal for 110V/240V power supplies) requires a weather proof box - the lead is only about 3m. They are CE approved so could be used indoors - perhaps extending the actual cable by soldering/heat shrinking in an extension would be the best way.

For outdoor use, soldering and heatshrinking a cover on is NOT a good idea, especially for mains stuff! Makes stuff go 'boom' quite nicely. Condensation if nothing else can seep through shrunk connections like this.

Use a quality prupose-built connector, such as the couple that can be seen here (not an electrical company, but I know them ) http://www.koilogic.co.uk/store/go/category/7/44
You can get fully submersible mains-rated cable connectors or weatherproof junction boxes (these should be mounted in a moderately sheltered location).

Yes I agree - just I was talking about the 12V twin wire from the transformer to the camera - and should have also pointed out NOT mains wires. What I was trying to prevent was a mains transformer being located anywhere outside.

Thanks for the link - looks like a great value camera and proves what I wanted is possible.

For my uses I'll be going a different route - proper IP cameras (I really like the Axis 206's) that I know are reliable and don't need regular "tweaking"
I'm not often on-site and I'm looking for minimal maintenance and simplicity - adding a tuner card and some more wiring and I feel it starts to get more complicated, but thanks for the help.

My setup is now nearing completion. 4 Axis cameras (3 206's and a 211) using modect at night both inside and out. The outside ones are combined with normal 150w PIR floodlights which obviously trigger the modect features of zm. Seems to work very well like that for nighttime, and with PIR floodlights only 7 quid from screwfix or b&q it's no hardship throwing them up everywhere.

Got a couple more 206's to install and also a rare beast - a wireless infra-red IP camera with audio (for animal health monitoring). Just a beastie is proving difficult to find though, may have to go for a low-light capable cam and a 5watt low energy bulb.

The server is just a duron 1200. At night-time it's mostly idle so makes for a perfect platform. With 4 cams, running 640x480/modect with b&w only (lovely axis makes any combination of stream a piece of cake) runs a load of about 0.48, so a couple more won't hurt - and diskspace usage is very low, even with over two thousand events listed now.

Anyway, thanks for the hints - quite a learning curve, but kinda fun.