Outdoor IP Camera Recommendations?

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Fri Apr 21, 2006 6:21 pm

I'm just getting my feet wet with ZM and cctv camera technology in general. I started out looking at analog/BT878A capture solutions, but I'm slowly shifting towards the idea of IP cameras.

My intended setup:

4-8 cameras placed around a property that measures approx. 150ft x 45ft. Most of the cameras will be outdoors and must be housed in a weatherproof cases, although being based in southern california, extreme temperatures will not be a problem.

Basic requirements:
-Works well with ZM
-Weatherproof case
-Good video quality in day and night
-Power over Ethernet
-Under $300 per camera

pan/tilt/zoom not essential, although I would like a pointer to one such camera for possible future addition.

Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

Post by **zoneminder** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 2:04 pm

IP cameras are good, but a lot more expensive than analog ones especially for outdoors types. Have you considered using analog video and running power and video over cat5e? That way you use the same infrastructure as IP (so you could change later) but a lot less initial outlay. You just need a pair of small baluns one at each end of the run and these are usuallly pretty cheap. You would need a capture card as well obviously but it would come out a lot cheaper, and probably better quality as well.

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 4:23 pm

Thanks for the reply. Analog does seem like the best bet for my money at this stage. I've looked at some of the nicer IP cameras, and had a bit of sticker shock...

Do you have some pointers to the baluns you mentioned?

Post by **zoneminder** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 7:34 pm

The baluns you needs are video+power so use 2 pairs. You can get 4 x video or video + data + power etc however the video + power are the smallest. My supplier in the UK is a normal security eqpt supplier so I suspect you will be able to find something similar where you are.

You can use unpowered passive baluns up to 500m, anything over this and you will need powered ones (which defeats the objetc of running power over them!). Googling I found this site which has pictures, http://www.spytown.com/vbalrx.html, the baluns themselves are probably about the size of your thumb. It lists $50 for a pair, I suspect you may be able to get them for a bit less than that, probably even on eBay or the like.

Bicster · Post by **Bicster** » Mon Apr 24, 2006 9:05 pm

I've done business with Spytown before. They're OK.

I'm generally unhappy with analog video though...especially NTSC at resolutions above 352x288. PAL is another story, but PAL cameras are difficult to come by in the US.

To complicate my own situation even more, I run Zoneminder inside a Xen virtual machine. As a practical matter I need to stick with IP-based cameras.

I am very pleased with my new Axis 207 indoor camera. I wish they had some outdoor models at similar prices! I see a lot of people using them outdoors, but I have no idea how long the sensor will last in the sunlight.

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:42 am

Thanks for the feedback! 500m should be fine as my total run will be well within that limit. Other questions that come to mind... Is there any reason to fret over the decision to go 12v versus 24v? According to the manf. specs, the power consumption of cameras varies widely. Should I be worried about the max power draw if I'm using cat5e?

And lastly, the big question... what camera to choose! I know that's asked frequently, but it's hard to find apples-to-apples comparisons on these devices. I'd like to stay under $300 per camera, and I'm currently looking at the Mace and Speco line of cams. In general, I find the offerings to be confusing... the features seem to overlap. For example, the speco CVC-627 advertises that it's: waterproof, day/night, IR, color and 0.01 lux to infinity, or 0 lux to 45-feet. On paper, this sounds perfect for me, but why then is the price so low compared with other cameras with the same or even inferior specs? The prices seem to jump even within the same manufacturer's lineup and it's not totally clear what improves with the cost. I've tried Googling for product reviews, but it seems that the CCTV market is underserved in this regard.

Post by **zoneminder** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 9:48 am

I'm not familiar with either of the camera lines you mention, but then I don't actually buy a lot of cameras. Essentially though what a lot of it can boil down to is quality of sensor and thus images, and to an extent lens as well. Thus it is nearly always the case that 'you get what you pay for' however if you have the opportunity to view some sample images I would do so. Also take '0 lux' ranges with a pinch of salt, you often get a lot less and you may need supplementary IR illumination but this can be added on afterwards.

The primary concern with 12 v 24 volts power is that 24 v is usually ac and I uderstand that this can't be fed down cat5 (don't ask me why

) so this may rule it out unless you can power you cameras where they are sited. I think 24v is more 'traditional' in the cctv industry but a number of cameras are available that let you select and even PTZ ones now can be had with 12c dc supply.

tech_fixer · Post by **tech_fixer** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:04 pm

Hello!
If you cant find a sub-$300 outdoor camera, you can roll your own. TRENDnet sells a nice outdoor enclosure for IP Cams, "TRENDnet TPH-5000 ". It has a heater and a blower to deal with different environments.

You can search it on Froogle, it sells for around $!30-150:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TPH ... tnG=Search

Then, you can pop in a TRENDnet TV-IP200 camera, which sells for around $120-180
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TV- ... tnG=Search

Or, you can go cheaper with a TRENDnet TV-IP100, which sell for around $80-100:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TV- ... tnG=Search

Now, for PTZ, there's the TV-IP400 which sells for about $140-190:
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=TV- ... tnG=Search

But the real trick would be to find a cheap enclosure for that PTZ camera. I'll need more time to find that... and a magician.

Hope it helps!
Jose.

tech_fixer · Post by **tech_fixer** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 12:50 pm

Well, slap me silly and call me Merlin!

Look what I found!
http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=ELC ... tnG=Search

A wall/ceiling dome enclosure for PTZ IP cameras... that sells for $108-130

It is made for the ELMO PTZ IP Camera, but it is suspiciously similar to the D-Link and TRENDnet ones... I bet those fit right in.

If anyone has a PTZ TRENDnet or D-Link camera, please send information about the dimensions of the base mounting screws... pleeease!

Here's the info...
ELC-110C (Clear Dome)
ELC-110S (Smoke Dome)
Wall / Ceiling Kit for ELMO PTC-200
& PTC-201 IP PTZ Cameras

* Ideal for 360 coverage
* Lightweight, wall or ceiling12 gauge all aluminum mounting with clear or smoke acrylic dome
* Special anchor plate available for drop ceiling install
* Total camera access 2 screw hinged cover
* White polyurethane coating
* Weight 5.20 lbs. (2.36 kg)

Bicster · Post by **Bicster** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:50 pm

The Trendnet TV-IP200 has a CMOS sensor and lacks an iris, so I would not expect it to last a long time if it ever gets any direct sun. A CCD sensor is preferable for this kind of application.

The TV-IP300 meets both criteria. Keep in mind that the TV-IP300 does not have a progressive scan sensor, so its output resolution is limited to well below the sensor resolution. Also, the specs state that it uses MPEG4. I'd presume it has a JPEG mode, but I haven't checked the documentation.

tech_fixer · Post by **tech_fixer** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:54 pm

Even with smoked protective glass?

Bicster · Post by **Bicster** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 1:56 pm

I edited my post.

I've never tried such a thing, but I've seen all kinds of warnings. CMOS sensors get bleached in sunlight. And for outdoor use, an iris is useful to control the light.

tech_fixer · Post by **tech_fixer** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 2:02 pm

We're talking Sub-$300 per camera here, right?

Yes, the TV-IP300 is better, but it sells for around $270-330+ by itself...

Gren · Post by **Gren** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:36 pm

Thanks for the tips about the CMOS sensor and iris, I wouldn't have thought of that. In regards to the Trendnet IP cameras, would anyone be able to upload some real world examples of day and night shots? I'm not married to the idea of IP or analog at this stage... I'll use whatever delivers the highest quality for the money.

Bicster · Post by **Bicster** » Tue Apr 25, 2006 4:54 pm

I found this at Spytown. I have no idea if it's any good or what the specs are:

DigiVue ECVD-701 Color Vandal Resistant, Weatherproof IP Dome Camera with 3.6mm Lens - $225.

It has an electronic iris, which is not as good as a mechanical one, but it definitely looks like it's designed for outdoor use from the start.

Anyone tried one of these? I may be a guinea pig if not ...