ZM endless record and Modect

leon · Post by **leon** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:33 am

ZM endless record and Modect
I am a ZM's new user
Using ZM 1.22.3 on Kubuntu 2.6.17-10-generic.
I setup in mocord mode, section length 300 s that's 5 minutes
I put the webcam on my desk looking to the entrance door.
I set up a central zone 1/16 of total picture.
Going out for dinner I switched off the light.
Going back one hour later, switch on the light et sat down in front of the display....
ZM recorded one single sequence, with ¾ in the black.
Of course my departure and my return has been detected.
In my understanding ZM should have recorded two 5 minutes sequences, one when I am leaving the other when I return .
So my question is: what may be wrong in my set up ? or in my understanding ?
Going through the forum I found that Modect is may be the right mode:

You do hopefully realize that mocord records 24/7 and only logs events? mode modect only records when there is something detected (just to make sure we are on the same page)....

Of course you did this nice ZM so you know what it can do but for new user it is not so obvious.
From there let me say that Readme is not so easy to understand: why do not use a table with mode in line and functions in columns ? Interesting functions could be:
Monitor, Motion detection, Event generation, Continuous record, Fixed length record associated with event(s)

My problem is that in Modect mode I still get continuous recording one hour ore more, so.....is it really possible to get fixed length records associated with events and no continuous record ?

Thanks
Leon

Post by **cordel** » Sat May 12, 2007 8:46 am

Yes if you enable the function in options under the config tab for ZM_FORCE_CLOSE_EVENTS it will end at the setting you have defined always.
Sounds like you need to tune your zone as it's to sensitive maybe so they are not closing but I think you still misunderstand it's function. Mocord continuously records so if you have a section length of 300 you should have 12 separate recordings an hour. The diff between mocord and record is that mocord analyzes images and logs events.

leon · Post by **leon** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:02 am

Thanks for your fast answer.
My question: is it possible with ZM
to detect motion ( generate event ) and record fixed length sequence only
if an event is generated.
In other words no useless record with no change in it !
Thanks
Leon

Post by **cordel** » Sat May 12, 2007 9:07 am

Only on record/mocord.
Event based (modect) can't be fixed time as it records the prebuffer + detected events + post buffer (if a event occures during post it goes back to event status till post buffer clears).

kdf · Post by **kdf** » Sat May 12, 2007 12:47 pm

As a relativly new user myself I have found the documentation and readme's to be excellent and very easy to understand.

leon · Post by **leon** » Sat May 12, 2007 3:26 pm

So, if my understanding is correct, modect is the right mode to record only events plus pre and post buffers.
The problem I have is that in modect I got alarm but no recording, so what could be wrong ?
Leon

leon · Post by **leon** » Sun May 13, 2007 8:43 pm

My previous post was not precise enough. When I wrote no recording I wanted to say endless recording. Let me explain what I observed:
I use very basic settings:
central window 4941 pixels
alarmed pixels
min /max pixels threshold 20 / 255
Min max alarm area 60 / 4941
Buffer 50
Warm up 25
Pre 10
post 10
Section length 60 (one minute)
Now I run ZM and move the hand from time to time in front of the web cam.
Alarm appear in monitor window but the event is never closed.
The only way I found to close it is to change detection rule in Zone screen going to choose preset best sensibility closes the event.
So now I can examine the content, using Events /show timeline.
I found a level with value 50 when there is no motion and areas with edges going to 100 126 90 when there is motion. OK

My only problem stays, I get several minutes without any motion and the sequence doesn't not close, never close if I do not force it to do.
So it seems that ZM can't record only significant part of event: around motion detected.

So now it is very important to know if ZM is able to record only significant part of events.
If yes : what is wrong in my setup ?
If no : I must buy Dlink DCS 950 G camera, it do it alone ! (OK its a shame: it is Windows.... but....)

Thanks Leon

Post by **cordel** » Mon May 14, 2007 12:12 am

You must tune your zones. The presets are there as a start point only.

leon · Post by **leon** » Mon May 14, 2007 8:20 am

First to be sure that my understanding is correct: definition about key words:

'alarm': motion analysis generates an alarm or event if threshold is passed

'event': is a record (bunch of compressed images plus additional informations) triggered by motion, or external alarm.

'score': is the score given to the alarm, usually to indicate it's importance

'Modect': MOtion DeteCTtion mode. All captured images will be analyzed and events generated where motion is detected. Note that I did not found indication about record characteristics in this mode.

One term seems to be undefined: it is time where trigger fires.
Lets us call (between us as) fire, it means something is happening right now.
Now obviously fire sets alarm.
Alarm starts record in Modect mode.
But it seems to me that nothing stop this record and so close the event.

Now the key question for me is:
is it possible to get event record containing only:
Pre Event Image Buffer / fire period / Post Event Image Buffer
or
Pre Event Image Buffer / fire period / Post Event Image Buffer + complement to Section length

Thanks
Leon

leon · Post by **leon** » Tue May 15, 2007 6:57 am

As a conclusion, I did not received answer to previous and always same question so I will conclude:
ZM is not able to record only significant sequences, where motion has been detected and only those sequences.
ZM produces continuous endless record in modect mode. The only way I found, to close a record is to change Zone detection setting.
Record only significant sequences is very important for regular use.
An other missing feature will be sound alarm when motion detection fires, in order to help new user to tune motion detection faster.

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » Tue May 15, 2007 8:46 am

am i right in thinking all yoiu want to record is frames with motion in?

is so set your pre and post buffer to 0 or 1 and tune your zone. Motion detection is an art and takes a while to get spot on. But the defaults usually speed this up. I agree that live stats would help in the tuning but mking that work on the web ui is not simple

leon · Post by **leon** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:16 pm

Yes I want to record bunch of compressed images (plus additional informations) triggered by motion, that you called event. But I do not want to record 4 hours of still picture, it is useless.
My question did not receive yet a precise answer, is it possible to do it with ZM or not?

You said that motion detection is an art, OK.
The problem : I was not able to send to you a Word or .odt document containing pictures ( I do not have web site to host my pictures !)
But I got nice motion detection at right time if you go through my previous posts
Let me repeat in italic:
So now I can examine the content, using Events /show timeline.
I found a level with value 50 when there is no motion and areas with edges going to 100 126 90 when there is motion. OK

My only problem stays, I get several minutes without any motion and the sequence doesn't not close, never close if I do not force it to do.

So ZM records endless and its does'nt seem to be a matter related with motion detection.

English is not my mother language so I probably had problems in understanding ZM readme but but but I could not find the paragraph where it is clearly stated that ZM is able to do what I am looking for.

So I am probably a mule or a donkey because I did an bad ZM setting ..
Or ZM is not able to do so.
As I spent some time on this matter, I would like to know if some ZM users succeeded to record only significant part of sequences with motion in it ( plus may be some pre and post but without hours of still pictures)

Thanks

Leon

jameswilson · Post by **jameswilson** » Tue May 15, 2007 3:45 pm

leon wrote:Yes I want to record bunch of compressed images (plus additional informations) triggered by motion, that you called event. But I do not want to record 4 hours of still picture, it is useless.
My question did not receive yet a precise answer, is it possible to do it with ZM or not?

You said that motion detection is an art, OK.
The problem : I was not able to send to you a Word or .odt document containing pictures ( I do not have web site to host my pictures !)
But I got nice motion detection at right time if you go through my previous posts
Let me repeat in italic:
So now I can examine the content, using Events /show timeline.
I found a level with value 50 when there is no motion and areas with edges going to 100 126 90 when there is motion. OK

My only problem stays, I get several minutes without any motion and the sequence doesn't not close, never close if I do not force it to do.

So ZM records endless and its does'nt seem to be a matter related with motion detection.

English is not my mother language so I probably had problems in understanding ZM readme but but but I could not find the paragraph where it is clearly stated that ZM is able to do what I am looking for.

So I am probably a mule or a donkey because I did an bad ZM setting ..
Or ZM is not able to do so.
As I spent some time on this matter, I would like to know if some ZM users succeeded to record only significant part of sequences with motion in it ( plus may be some pre and post but without hours of still pictures)

Thanks

Leon

Yes it is possible to record only motion.

CLosing of events is opnly used for mocord or record moded, modect is the one you want and will only close when the motie as motion it will never close. Us eone of the presets ie the least sensitive one to test with

If using mocord or record then the event will last for whatever the section length is set to (if force end is enabled)

YOu r no donkey and your english is excellent

ANd yes i do this all the time on my setup

James

hochholzer · Post by **hochholzer** » Mon Aug 25, 2008 5:19 am

Perhaps the option "Linked Monitors" in the "monitor tab" ist set?

In this field must not set the monitor from the same camera. See Documentation from linkes monitors:
"Be very careful not to create circular dependencies with this feature however you will have infinitely persisting alarms which is almost certainly not what you want!"

Michel_975 · Post by **Michel_975** » Thu Aug 28, 2008 11:11 am

I have a very similar problem since upgrading my system and ZM.

I used to run ZM 1.21 under Kubuntu edgy, and had my zones tuned and performing well.
A few weeks ago I got a newer machine, transplanted my two bt878 (pico2000) cards and installed a clean Kubuntu Hardy. With it I installed the pre-packaged ZM 1.22.3.
I manually entered all the parameters and zone settings I had on the old system (from hard-copy printouts), and it looked like things worked.

HOWEVER, I found that my old settings no longer perform the same way. On 1.22.3 the same settings I had in 1.21 do not trigger any motion detection at all. I gradually increased sensitivity (reduced number) until it detected a moving human ok, but this also results in lots of false detection, ie there is no obvious motion visible on playback, nor are there any large light changes, yet most of the zone shows as alarmed pixels. This frequently results in continuous recordings. Even at a less sensitive level that doesn't reliably detect a human, I get the occasional continuous record.
Despite tweaking everything in sight for weeks now, I cannot for the live of me get the thing to work properly. It either triggers on almost everything all the time or almost never triggers at all. There seems to be no middle ground.

Could someone please shed some light on why my 1.21 settings no longer work in 1.22.3 and there seems to be no sensitivity setting that performs properly? Right now I'm very tempted to ditch ZM for a windows product that works well in trial version (dual boot machine!).

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